CarGurus, Credit Crash, Customer NO Service & More


What, exactly, is CarGurus?  Austensibly they’re a vehicle listing service – a huge one.   But does this give them a carte blanche right to treat their clients/site users in a disdainful, inappropriate manner?

I think not.

On or around 6.28/29.18 I found a nice vehicle & via Gurus, requested contact from the seller (private seller listing) after creating an account.

Via Gurus the seller contacted; offer made & accepted; and I began Gurus online financing application.

Gurus stipulates credit scores will not be harmed during this process. Important to me as I had been on a slow but steady credit rebuild of ten years, and was confident of reaching nearly 640 in July.

The application went well; into an congradulatory acceptance page menu of 5 options of time, payment and interest rates, popped up. “Please select one”.

I studied them for a bit – wasn’t keen on their interest rates, but in order to get more info was about to make my selection, when a notice about GAP insurance appeared.

I went to this page to read about this, was considering it and attempted to go back to the loan rate selection page – it was gone.

Backed up to the area of ‘sign in’ to complete the application and most of the previously entered info was also gone.  I began filling in again.

During this I receive a phone call from an Gurus/Autopay rep who advised they had the info from Gurus (I did not send it – how did Autopay get it?)  he just needed a bit more info.  Which I gave him.

He advised a loan agent would call Saturday 6.30.18.

No call.

I got notification from my credit card bank, credit score update.

Opened this up and was shocked to see my rating had plunged.  Could this have been because of Gurus and/or their affiliates loan people?  I felt yes – but I’ve been wrong before.

No calls, follow up, or response until I send a tweet to Gurus – response was quick on that asking for more details in a DM, which they got.

Me- “@CarGurus

This is regarding Gurus’ service and FALSE ADVERTISING IN WHICH YOU state “won’t harm your credit score” I applied, was Accepted & received a page with loan menus to choose from… Was about to make a selection when the page dissappeared after reading about your GAP coverage. Some guy calls & says he needs more info which was given to him – HE didn’t sound very positive at all – said a lender would be in touch yesterday (7.1.18) and no lender call. My credit was up graded yesterday morning. Gurus HAS TRASHED MINE. I should be sitting near 640 on my 10 gruelling years of re-build after losing ALL of 46 years of steady work (2007/2008) & wise investing – getting ready to retire late 2010. Laid off & deemed unemployable at 64 yrs old. Gurus has thrashed my score down to 619. Unacceptable in extreme! THIS IS NOT how you advertised your finance program!!! I am MORE THAN DISPLEASED – UNLESS THIS IS CORRECTED prior end of TODAY – ALL APPROPRIATE CONTACTS WILL BE MADE IN COMPLAINT. AND I’ll also request/demand serious investigation into what Gurus is really about. PLEASE – do not think this won’t happen… I do not false advertise Julia Elliott”

Understandably – Gurus became testy wanting my email contact.  Now – I stated they could get that off their site; they couldn’t find it; who are these people?  Then…

I received an email from an Autopay rep who stated it was not their doing my score went basement.  But NO comment about the loan application, or loan.

Meanwhile the ‘seller’ is in limbo.  We’re both in limbo.

And nothing has been accomplished.

Is using a site such as Gurus a ‘buyer beware’ decision?  Do these sites bear any responsibility toward how they advertise?  Who they’re affiliated with (Autopay)?

Read reviews and assessments of Gurus from dealers and buyers – Gurus is NOT BBB acreditted.

Very negative and mimic what I’m discussing in this essay.

Googling “complaints against CarGurus” will get an enormous list.  And also a nice shiny essay about Gurus from  – Langley Steinert.

And this –


The weight of CarGurus apparent disengenius way of doing business is pretty evenly balanced between buyers and sellers – complaints get slim to no viable answers.

And sometimes – credit scores are thrashed.

Is there more?  Oh ya – you bettcha.


7.3.18 From Autopay:

I am the purchase manager at Autopay and I received a copy of your post stating that Autopay/CarGurus are responsible for the drop in your credit score.  Which credit bureau are you looking at? How are you getting this information on Autopay pulling your credit?  Our lenders use Experian(we do not use Transunion or Equifax) and here is a list of your inquiries from Experian. There are no inquiries from Autopay or any of our lending partners that would change your credit. If you have any information showing otherwise I would be happy to go over it with you. As I mentioned in my previous email we did not do a hard pull on your credit. Please let me know if you have any questions.

7.3.18 from me:

Ok- am aware of the 2 yr olds – have no knowledge of the recent Query

But why didn’t you send also the 7 open accounts listed?  You can do this or not -I’m sending for all 3 ”reporting agencies”.
Last month 3 open accounts were listed – I have 3. … 7.1.18 update lists 7 open accounts … I don’t believe in coincidences.
I began on CarGurus a month & days ago & immediately began getting numerous calls to my number which had not been given to any entity at the time – except Gurus.
Gurus clearly has interlocking interfaces & algos with loan co’s & ALSO use massive autodial text Mssging etc…. Different number each time.  Sampled, numbers are disabled within seconds.  3 to 5 per day from NM to NY – one cannot disengage a number that quickly – unless the comms provider/s somehow involved with all this.
Did hours researching Gurus yesterday – VAST amounts of negatives across the board.  Lawsuit regarding their non-permissioned auto calling/texting (class action) complainants winning.
ALSO Gurus withhold contacts from potential buyer to sellers/dealers.  And vice versa. NOT accidental.  Gurus IPO’d Oct of last year (2017).  New BODs – they’re NOT doing a job of correcting – IF THEY even care.  This site & all who work within or out of it could be super successful with nothing but five star reviews.
Instead – is – as outlined here and massively, on the net, a Trainwreck.
Many, many dealers have only negative inputs re Gurus biz actions – inactions.
Perhaps it wasn’t Autopay specifically – but was certainly started by simply using Guru’s website – how do you separate?
The potentual Sport Trac purchase – on or around 6.29.18 am sure, is now a lost opportunity.  IF IT WAS VALID to begin with, as some of the complaints involve ‘bait & switch’ tactics; both with ‘dealers’ & ‘private sellers’.
All extreme poor business with loads of chicanery.
Thank you for the contact – I’ll use this email to post as well.  Both – but no name other than ‘Autopay’…


CLEARLY – CarGurus & possibly their close affiliates, live as an “untouchable” entities.

Truly makes me think of PONZI & MONEY LAUNDERING.

FUN FACT: The word ‘Autopay’ kept filling in as ‘Autopsy’….


07.04.18 Happy Fourth Independence Day 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

Regarding the all out strange runaway contacts to my phone – THEY SEEM TO HAVE STOPPED COLD  after sending all to Gurus/Autopay.

ALSO no recontact from seller since his last… I sent 3 or four info mssgs to him & he’s been fully responsive til this last. Gurus – hard at work keeping comms to themselves and cutting off buyers & sellers again.

This entire group involved – CarGurus, Autopay, communications providers, many of Gurus subscribing Dealers, some of the private sellers, need to be thoroughly opened up and scrutinized for shady & shody practices.

Very shady, Very Shoddy.




I Could Write a Book About You, Carol…

I’ve been re-reading many of our e-mails today & found this one written the day after you left.

Miss you.

….But you’ve always known as this.

Above all people, you have displayed angelic patience & support to someone who flailed her way through what’s called life…and still flailing.
Flailing was all I knew & you knew this & helped where you could, and did so in lasting emotional fashion.  I’ve thanked you many times over the years & now again … In departure.
There truly are few words – but a wealth of internalized ‘feelings, emotions, boundless love, affection, shared sorrows, shared exuberance’ & oh, yeah – the clothes lining…
You will always be a combination of all you matured into, Carol – for sooooo many people, family and all.
For me – there will never be a friend, a family, as steadfast as you…
I hope you find all those gone before & that Roscoe & Max will find you… & guide you.  U knew Maxine only by name & pics – but she is part of the lineage of precious canines of my own life.  May they forgive me for my proclivities toward them.
You, Carol, are my hugest emptiness now – which I’ll fill up with enormous, ripe memories… Many of them encompass ALL of you Alexanders & Kilbas – thank you…
Til I’m gone.
J n gurldawg Kat…😳🐾🐾



To Trump: how to win the war in Afghanistan

Could easily work… 😆🇺🇸💙🇺🇸

Jon Rappoport's Blog

To Trump: how to win the war in Afghanistan

by Jon Rappoport

May 29, 2018

Win the war in Afghanistan? Impossible, you say?

Dear Mr. Trump: it can be done, I assure you.

There is a pattern. It’s tried and true. It’s been tested in America for decades. So let’s rely on this accumulated wisdom and put it to good use. Finally.


Buckle up. This doesn’t need an executive summary. It isn’t a position paper. It’s an all-out attack. Let’s roll!

From hundreds of planes, drop fast food all over Afghanistan. Burgers. Fishsticks. McMuffins. Legs, breasts, wings—two weeks of chicken done right. It’s a good intro. Lightens everybody up a little. Hey, they’ve been cooking vulture over yak excrement for centuries. They’ll love the change. And the numerous chemicals in the food will begin to slow them down. That’s a given.

Then, from those same planes—candy! Fifty thousand tons…

View original post 961 more words

Gonna Do a Mental Ramble Here…

How many of you who may come upon this – have had to deal with the following:

Have to be at least a few – or many…


Stan – brother… Dad… Then Mom… Bert – other brother… Bud, Georgia my mom & dad in-laws… Others of this sweet in-law family… Bob – my twice husband from 1966 … And more recently – Carol – a staunch friend of over 64 years – my last friend… And lately – my brother Bert’s widow -my sis-in-law …

All gone…

I have dreams – some very strange – but I think- these places are a plane of existence we go to when we die. And have to pass ‘tests’ to get out and move on…

Not pleasant, confusing – but is what it is…

Dreamt of Shaniko the other night. A filly Bob & I raised a showed successfully. She was a beaut.

She was waiting on the corner of a crossroads – just standing there patiently… I saw her & she me. I walked toward her & we had a very low key communication – all thought – I was to follow her…

I did. We started up the road to her right – my left… At a liesurely pace. We were quiet – I did not ask questions… But felt grateful to have her as my guide…

I woke up – puzzled – but at great peace…


My God…

Sunday Offering of a Final Roundup Ride

Even in the 90’s Rounding up cattle could only be done as always had been done – a team effort from the back of a horse.

At my already ‘dated age’ I was sought out to help on such.

Well – hell ya – I’m IN…

In earlier story telling, the horse I had was a bonifide runaway. We got to know each other intimately during this gathering & drive.

It’s dirty, dusty work & on THIS ranch – dangerous with Cholla…

One carries a fine-toothed comb to scrape Cholla off your horse – or you- if unfortunate to have to.

Day one of the gathering was fairly uneventful. Horse & I newly reaquainted were doing well. He was sure footed & I could feel he wanted to please.

What more could one ask…?

The second day was more challenging as we were gathering & pushing out of heavy Cholla areas.

Ground hell.

As nimble as the mount was – he grazed a ‘bush’ – I could tell & pulled him up… Offending piece hanging just back of cinch … Gawd…

He was trembling a bit, but not moving away like some horses might do under similar circumstances.

Talking to him the whole time, I kept contact with his neck, then shoulder & moved in toward the Cholla. Comb out – I gave him a couple of light thumps just below the saddle and combed that chunk off.

He quit trembling almost as soon as it was out, even tho there were a few spines to get out. Did that with a pair of pliers… Roughed up the area a bit with my glove & off we went to catch the group ahead, while looking for hide out stragglers. Ha! Found three! After catching up, we found out this particular area of the ranch was done.

We broke early to meet in the morning, coffee up, saddle up & trailer the horses into another section about 8 miles from HQ. We were riding by 8 AM or so.

It was a long day with the largest part if the herd finally in front heading to meet up with the others left in a water tank pen.

A few hours later, we were there. Dust was about horse high & thick. I was getting tired about now as well, and as sometimes happens – dropped a rein.

And knew exactly what would follow.

I tried to grab for it, missed, he stepped on it, threw his head back, and clocked me good.

I had sunglasses on & was hit just to right of bridge…Dayyum! Did that hurt.

Horse stopped dead in his tracks even with all the commotion around us – he didn’t budge. Good boy – cuz at that moment I could barely see and was dizzy.

No one saw any of this.

After a few minutes all the cattle & riders were by – I dismounted & checked his mouth, gave him a few pats & we walked up and over the dirt berm to the water.

Dunked my scarf in & washed the dirt, mud, tears & mucous off my face – best I could. Haaa – what a sight I must’ve been.

Mounted back up and we set off at a brisk pace to catch up again. 20 or so minutes later – we were riding drag again.

No further adventures that day and we secured over 300 head in the HQ pens. Put the horses up, brushed and fed – then a few headed to the ranch house before heading home.

I needed hydration & to just sit down for a bit before driving back to Tucson.

Took off my hat and glasses and started in on a bottle of water – the foreman walks in, looks at me and stopped cold…”Good God Almighty! What happened to you!!!”. Genuine shock right there.

I hadn’t looked to see my eye – wasn’t bothering me that much by then & I forgot about it. Well, the foreman startled me into finding a mirror and what I saw was a beaut. Big and purple with over half the white now red… No wonder he yelped.

I had to work at my regular job next day and wasn’t committed to the ranch til 2 days down the road… So I told the foreman give my regards to all & I headed home.

When I arrived – my good boy Roscoe was jumping all over the gate area – thrilled I was back… Opened the gate – drove in and parked after a brief howdy do with the guy dawg – who got kinda subdued after a few sniffs.

Closed the gate & headed inside straight to the shower… But not before Roscoe had his questions answered… Haaaaa!

Hat & glasses off – he knew something was wrong – half of my face by now didn’t belong – it disturbed him & took about an hour to convince him ‘it was OK’… What a guydawg.

Uneventful nite – sound sleep… At the office by 0800.

Boss takes one look & does a repeat of the ranch foreman. By now – I’m getting ‘into it’…

Since I was a sales/designer for landscaping – I told him I thought I could work this black eye and swelling, by saying I didn’t meet quota & ‘The boss slugged me’… 🙄😁

It was a joke, but to his credit, he wasn’t keen – that I wouldn’t do this… Haaa!

So – he said “take the rest of the week off”… So I did, after thanking him… He was staring after me as I left – shaking his head a bit.

I returned to Deep Wells for the separating and cattle truck loading. Got my same horse – we were both glad to see each other!

No further incidents of note & this horse was an experienced cutter by end of my final day there. He was a natural – a sight to see, a marvel to ride & be part of this skillful pony.

Even Jolly seemed impressed, hard bitten rancher n all.

And that was it.

A lot of events rolled into one I won’t ever forget.

“I got Spurs that jingle jangle jingle…”

The Question of UFO’S …

They are, after all, ‘unidentified flying objects’.

Which basically means anything that appears to be moving, or static in the sky. Could be anything that one cannot identify: drones of any shape, weather balloon devices, other observation platforms built at the behest of our government – any government.

Thousands of us have experienced sighting them, watching them; then boom! Gone in the blink of an eye.

They could also be extraterrestrial – can’t rule it out.

Here’s what I’ve seen, since living in New Mexico. New Mexico!??? Yep, we all know about the ‘events’ that occurred way back when – & Roswell. More to this story as well – later.

Several times very reflective floaters have been observed in vicinity skies, above or near my ranch. All unexplained but so interesting to watch. Day time sightings – who knows what floats at night…

Well – about 4 years ago, I had awakened from a dreamless, sound sleep – checked the time – just prior 0300, moonless dark.

Passing the windows I spotted a fairly large, moving light to Northwest.

Shouldn’t have been there – where it was – slow moving – close to tree line on the ridge.

It was about the size of an approaching headlight from about 1000 or so feet off, gaining size as it came closer. Couldn’t make out what was behind that light.

The ‘thing’ was just above the tree line, as closer it got, could make out the tops of the trees lighting up briefly and it slowed and began to move in a slower, still forward, but back and forth kinda dog hunting pattern.

Then it travelled southward along the ridge. I – quick as I could in the dark- went outside to keep an better eye on it as it was now partially obstructed by trees near the cabin.

Good – still there – and I watched as it now slowed to a stop – still above the ridge and tree line, just south of a neighboring property. It hovered, still, not moving for several seconds.

Then no warning, an enormous beam of white/bluish light from opposite side of valley flashed at the hovering light – held a few seconds & blinked off. The beam lit the valley floor under it but not much around it and didn’t light the ‘receiving’ object.

I estimated the beam to be at least 50′ in depth – width ? No telling.

“Communicating” was the first thing that came into my astonished mind.

When the beam was gone the ‘headlight’ lifted higher and seemed to turn westward & it too vanished.

A beam of light – reminding of a tractor beam like in Sci Fi stories; but not emanating from the flier but somewhere else… ? Horizontal.

I made coffee.

Daylight came & my gurldawg (who remained undisturbed through all) and I took a hike to the other side of the valley up to the ridgeline.

Estimating about where the beam was coming from I could see a smallish trailer, positioned exactly where it needed to be if this beam somehow came from it.

Could I get to it? Easily. Did I? No.

To best of my knowledge, no one has ever visited or stayed there. I see it every time we hike the ranch. Been there since shortly after I moved here in 2008.

Will I ever take this further & drive up the community road to it? Doubtful.

For now, there are just some things best to lie fallow, maybe for a few more years.